beyond our ken

Wednesday ticket update
Got my e-mail
" Thank you for purchasing our cinch Premiership match against Hibernian.
Please Note: The match is a 7:45pm KO on Wednesday 8th Nov.
Your e-ticket is attached.  Please present this e-ticket on your smart phone at the turnstile.  Alternatively, use 'print at home' and present your paper copy for scanning. "
There is, of course, no e-ticket attached so it's turn up extra-early and queue up in the cold as they usually don't re-send these e-tickets, relying instead on the goodwill of the SLOs to get the fans in
A great example of the "current workings" of the club as experienced by fans who rely on remote purchases
I am in W3 and the bulk of the empty seats seem to be in the front rows or in the south of W1. 

Plenty of tickets still available for Dundee, got mine for Wednesday's game and Saturday's, however Wednesday looks in short supply already.
You can tell how slick and profesional the operation is when you get this message to confirm your purchase of single match tickets
 
"You have successfully purchased your Season Ticket for the 2021/22 season.  
Thank you for your support,
From all at St Mirren Football Club
#InYouWeTrust"
Right back atcha!

the usual overheads would eat into that £31k quite substantially as you have to cover all of the taxes, food, drink, staff, energy and other costs. such as wear & tear and any impact on rateable value or licensing costs.  It might provide around 10-15k a year until the loan is repaid and then maybe another 10k after that
Every little helps and it would be a good %age  return on a 80k investment that would trickle into a variety of budgets in the club without in itself changing any part of the game when it comes to squad budgets.  There is probably a greater need to rebuild the support functions at the club after cost-cutting took us to the bone last year than there is to add a tenth of a good player's salary.

You missed a bit, maybe it didn't get past the proof readers.
"Other people usually suffer the consequences of the shit some people pour onto the world whilst referrencing their own right to "free speech""
 

I'm a celebrity comes back soon and that will eat up a comparative, if not even larger slice of airtime on our tellies and teaches us sod all.  Why not complain about that?
FFS, It's a few telly programmes over a few weeks once a year, not a threat to so-called national identity.  The only unpleasant aspect is the fact that it is used to try and remind us that Lenny Henry was once funny.  
Can't you just let people have that without complaining?  Scotland has a channel dedicated to Scottish content and a large part of that focusses on the general history of Scotland and rarely touches on black history
The same goes for other UK national tv channels that focus on generic UK history.
Given the exploitation, prejudice and rejection that Black people have had to and still endure, it can only be helpful if they remind themselves and the rest of us what their history in the UK actually is, because there will no meaningful reconcilliation between groups unless people go into that process.
Maybe you are making the mistake of thinking that events like Black History Month are an exclusive celebration of Black culture and that's not the case.  It's an opportunity for everyone to get involved and learn more about how the nation came to be as it is.

I'm a celebrity comes back soon and that will eat up a comparative, if not even larger slice of airtime on our tellies and teaches us sod all.  Why not complain about that?
FFS, It's a few telly programmes over a few weeks once a year, not a threat to so-called national identity.  The only unpleasant aspect is the fact that it is used to try and remind us that Lenny Henry was once funny.  
Can't you just let people have that without complaining?  Scotland has a channel dedicated to Scottish content and a large part of that focusses on the general history of Scotland and rarely touches on black history
The same goes for other UK national tv channels that focus on generic UK history.
Given the exploitation, prejudice and rejection that Black people have had to and still endure, it can only be helpful if they remind themselves and the rest of us what their history in the UK actually is, because there will no meaningful reconcilliation between groups unless people go into that process.
Maybe you are making the mistake of thinking that events like Black History Month are an exclusive celebration of Black culture and that's not the case.  It's an opportunity for everyone to get involved and learn more about how the nation came to be as it is.

I understand 
it’s about Black folk and you are upset
i can’t help you out with that 

You are right
You, Scott and everyone who never got off their arse to set it up are horribly discriminatory 
you do realise it was set up by black people who felt their history needed wider appreciation and they wouldn’t necessarily have thought about other skin hues?
Thought not!

Just wanted to add my thoughts before I sign off from this thread
The "scum Israelis", in my view are the group in power who hide behind a weak Netanyahu as they continue to push their fear & persecution agenda so that they can gain & retain power, whether that be for the sake of Ideaology, personal gain, ignorance or a combination thereof.
The vast majority of Israelis would be reasonable people whose attitudes & instincts are tempered by the situation they find themselves in.  Like many in our country, the fear mongers have developed a warped sense of identity, entitlement and persecution in what they see as their homeland and a lot of ordinary people who would come to a different conclusion are being led up the garden path.  In work, I often refer to the work of Stanley Milgram when exploring behaviours and he sought out, as the child of Jewish refugees, to understand how perfectly decent and reasonable Germans were led to committ the atrocities of the third reich.  His research suggests to many that the presence of an "authority figure" who absolves people of any responsibility they might feel when carrying out command, a common subject or enemy, an unremitting message & line of command along with an end that justifies the means are the basic blocks of manipulating mass behaviour.  People's behaviours towards others are basically motivated by either fear (hatred is simply a product of fear) or kindness and you can convince people that the best way to be kind to their kin is to unite against someone else.  
There will only be peace for Israel once they accept the fragility and unsustainability of their position and the fact that they really should be doing more to educate their own people and look for a way out of conflict.  Israel is like Palestine, they are a weak nation if left to their own devices and their strength comes from those who subsidise and support them and Palestine's situation is that they are also a weak nation with significantly less outside support.  I really think that Israellis should be asking if it continues to be both fair and sustainable for them to be so dependent on other countries for their sustainability and protection.  I also think Israel needs to rein in their ambitions to restore their domain to what they have been led to believe is their birthright, it isn't.  No part of the earth is anybody's birthright, we are caretakers, not owners and the lack of a concept of being able to share is the backstory to all wars.
So my not very scientific view is that Israel needs to look to a series of compromises that restores human rights to everyone in their region and the outside actors need to step away from enabling one side whilst offering poor mitigation to the other for the harm done.  The outside actors , in my view, are so scared of offending the pro-Israelli lobby that they simply accede to the demands of the lobby and just continue to compound the mistakes of the past, probably thinking that as individuals they will will be footnotes in history by the time the obvious ultimate shitfest occurs.   In order to quell the pro-Israelli lobby they need to work on the attitudes INSIDE Israel so that the lobby can't continually demand arms & warfare.  Israel and their neighbours need to work on what they can do FOR each other rather than what they can do TO each other.
The whole area was a giant f**k-up as soon as the outsiders decided they knew best and the only way out of it is for outside parties to stop enabling the entrenched positions and foster a much more benevolent and compassionate attitude.  In short, take away the fear and you have no reason to fight.
All that being said, it seems to me that unless a totalitarian regime is in place, nobody settles for anything in the near-east and most of the screw-ups started with the removal of totalitarians.  At least it has been proven that warfare and killing is a cycle and not a solution so maybe there is hope, somewhere.
 
Debate, discuss, argue all you want, i might read it but won't be responding.

Just wanted to add my thoughts before I sign off from this thread
The "scum Israelis", in my view are the group in power who hide behind a weak Netanyahu as they continue to push their fear & persecution agenda so that they can gain & retain power, whether that be for the sake of Ideaology, personal gain, ignorance or a combination thereof.
The vast majority of Israelis would be reasonable people whose attitudes & instincts are tempered by the situation they find themselves in.  Like many in our country, the fear mongers have developed a warped sense of identity, entitlement and persecution in what they see as their homeland and a lot of ordinary people who would come to a different conclusion are being led up the garden path.  In work, I often refer to the work of Stanley Milgram when exploring behaviours and he sought out, as the child of Jewish refugees, to understand how perfectly decent and reasonable Germans were led to committ the atrocities of the third reich.  His research suggests to many that the presence of an "authority figure" who absolves people of any responsibility they might feel when carrying out command, a common subject or enemy, an unremitting message & line of command along with an end that justifies the means are the basic blocks of manipulating mass behaviour.  People's behaviours towards others are basically motivated by either fear (hatred is simply a product of fear) or kindness and you can convince people that the best way to be kind to their kin is to unite against someone else.  
There will only be peace for Israel once they accept the fragility and unsustainability of their position and the fact that they really should be doing more to educate their own people and look for a way out of conflict.  Israel is like Palestine, they are a weak nation if left to their own devices and their strength comes from those who subsidise and support them and Palestine's situation is that they are also a weak nation with significantly less outside support.  I really think that Israellis should be asking if it continues to be both fair and sustainable for them to be so dependent on other countries for their sustainability and protection.  I also think Israel needs to rein in their ambitions to restore their domain to what they have been led to believe is their birthright, it isn't.  No part of the earth is anybody's birthright, we are caretakers, not owners and the lack of a concept of being able to share is the backstory to all wars.
So my not very scientific view is that Israel needs to look to a series of compromises that restores human rights to everyone in their region and the outside actors need to step away from enabling one side whilst offering poor mitigation to the other for the harm done.  The outside actors , in my view, are so scared of offending the pro-Israelli lobby that they simply accede to the demands of the lobby and just continue to compound the mistakes of the past, probably thinking that as individuals they will will be footnotes in history by the time the obvious ultimate shitfest occurs.   In order to quell the pro-Israelli lobby they need to work on the attitudes INSIDE Israel so that the lobby can't continually demand arms & warfare.  Israel and their neighbours need to work on what they can do FOR each other rather than what they can do TO each other.
The whole area was a giant f**k-up as soon as the outsiders decided they knew best and the only way out of it is for outside parties to stop enabling the entrenched positions and foster a much more benevolent and compassionate attitude.  In short, take away the fear and you have no reason to fight.
All that being said, it seems to me that unless a totalitarian regime is in place, nobody settles for anything in the near-east and most of the screw-ups started with the removal of totalitarians.  At least it has been proven that warfare and killing is a cycle and not a solution so maybe there is hope, somewhere.
 
Debate, discuss, argue all you want, i might read it but won't be responding.

So Israel is making threats against Russia now, regardless of how difficult that makes life for other nations trying to handle Russian threat.
Yet another promise they can't keep and an extension of the stance that the only answer to one killing is to kill 100 others.  Israelis should understand that when those in power fail so miserably with their unfulfillable promises, they will simply resort to sabre rattling and rabble-rousing in order to stay in power and prevent a subsequent government from uncovering the lies, corruption and incompetence that they inflicted on all.
Maybe we should all understand that.

So Israel is making threats against Russia now, regardless of how difficult that makes life for other nations trying to handle Russian threat.
Yet another promise they can't keep and an extension of the stance that the only answer to one killing is to kill 100 others.  Israelis should understand that when those in power fail so miserably with their unfulfillable promises, they will simply resort to sabre rattling and rabble-rousing in order to stay in power and prevent a subsequent government from uncovering the lies, corruption and incompetence that they inflicted on all.
Maybe we should all understand that.

The fact that many people have pointed out is that the bombardment of areas where civilians live and the order to vacte other areas are the reasons so many were using the hospital for shelter as well as healthcare, so  who blew up what only matters to a certain extent.  Something was going to explode in that area at some point and a load of innocents were going to be hurt.
Aside that, there are the thousands of civilians killed, around 50% of the population of Gaza is under 18, so it's not correct to say that all residents are combatants at this stage.
Hamas are responsible for their own actions, Netanyahu failed miserably on his security promises and could well have been relying on the threat of a disproportionate response as a deterrent to any hostilities.  The problem with perpetual threats is that people eventually become emboldened by living under them.  Netanyahu is a fool and it seems he failed to realise his responsibility extends to mitigating unintended consequences, so he bounces himself into killing loads more people when he knows he can't really disassemble Hamas in the way he promises.

The fact that many people have pointed out is that the bombardment of areas where civilians live and the order to vacte other areas are the reasons so many were using the hospital for shelter as well as healthcare, so  who blew up what only matters to a certain extent.  Something was going to explode in that area at some point and a load of innocents were going to be hurt.
Aside that, there are the thousands of civilians killed, around 50% of the population of Gaza is under 18, so it's not correct to say that all residents are combatants at this stage.
Hamas are responsible for their own actions, Netanyahu failed miserably on his security promises and could well have been relying on the threat of a disproportionate response as a deterrent to any hostilities.  The problem with perpetual threats is that people eventually become emboldened by living under them.  Netanyahu is a fool and it seems he failed to realise his responsibility extends to mitigating unintended consequences, so he bounces himself into killing loads more people when he knows he can't really disassemble Hamas in the way he promises.

Was the legal action not prompted by the ban?
If so, the notification may be a wee bit disingenuous implying "he backed down, so we let him back in".  The reality is that the club backed down on this as there is no mention of retraction or an agreement not to repeat his accusations, is there any other case ongoing between the club, Kibble or any other party around AW's statements?  My recollection is that there were two Kibble employees who were treatening action regarding comments and accusations they attribute to AW.  There is no mention of that so my assumption is that while the club might be out of it, a process that still has the potential to generate bad publicity and maybe even financial implications is still underway.
Or maybe it is all swept under the carpet?

The fact that many people have pointed out is that the bombardment of areas where civilians live and the order to vacte other areas are the reasons so many were using the hospital for shelter as well as healthcare, so  who blew up what only matters to a certain extent.  Something was going to explode in that area at some point and a load of innocents were going to be hurt.
Aside that, there are the thousands of civilians killed, around 50% of the population of Gaza is under 18, so it's not correct to say that all residents are combatants at this stage.
Hamas are responsible for their own actions, Netanyahu failed miserably on his security promises and could well have been relying on the threat of a disproportionate response as a deterrent to any hostilities.  The problem with perpetual threats is that people eventually become emboldened by living under them.  Netanyahu is a fool and it seems he failed to realise his responsibility extends to mitigating unintended consequences, so he bounces himself into killing loads more people when he knows he can't really disassemble Hamas in the way he promises.

Was the legal action not prompted by the ban?
If so, the notification may be a wee bit disingenuous implying "he backed down, so we let him back in".  The reality is that the club backed down on this as there is no mention of retraction or an agreement not to repeat his accusations, is there any other case ongoing between the club, Kibble or any other party around AW's statements?  My recollection is that there were two Kibble employees who were treatening action regarding comments and accusations they attribute to AW.  There is no mention of that so my assumption is that while the club might be out of it, a process that still has the potential to generate bad publicity and maybe even financial implications is still underway.
Or maybe it is all swept under the carpet?

Was the legal action not prompted by the ban?
If so, the notification may be a wee bit disingenuous implying "he backed down, so we let him back in".  The reality is that the club backed down on this as there is no mention of retraction or an agreement not to repeat his accusations, is there any other case ongoing between the club, Kibble or any other party around AW's statements?  My recollection is that there were two Kibble employees who were treatening action regarding comments and accusations they attribute to AW.  There is no mention of that so my assumption is that while the club might be out of it, a process that still has the potential to generate bad publicity and maybe even financial implications is still underway.
Or maybe it is all swept under the carpet?

If someone is accepted to live and work in a country, pay taxes and vote there then their ability to comment on government should not be challenged on the basis of where they came from.
British society is still a better place to live than Zimbabwe even though it needs a substantial upgrade in foreiegn policy, human rights and civic freedoms, or perhaps you haven't noticed the erosion of rights and freedoms that our governnent has enacted?
As for ancestry, there are more with Irish ancestry than not in Scotland, even if it is not dominant and going back millenia the indigenous population was supplemented by migrants.

If someone is accepted to live and work in a country, pay taxes and vote there then their ability to comment on government should not be challenged on the basis of where they came from.
British society is still a better place to live than Zimbabwe even though it needs a substantial upgrade in foreiegn policy, human rights and civic freedoms, or perhaps you haven't noticed the erosion of rights and freedoms that our governnent has enacted?
As for ancestry, there are more with Irish ancestry than not in Scotland, even if it is not dominant and going back millenia the indigenous population was supplemented by migrants.

We are almost at the point where the point of taking about this will be lost as escalation is a near certainty now
Would Israel blow up a Gaza hospital and blame it on Hamas? Absolutely 
Would Hamas blow up a hospital to try an denigrate Israel? Very possibly 
would either of them own up to a botched operation? No f**kkin chance 
The fact that Israel has pointed the finger at third party is very suspicious 
Nobody in the Arab world is buying Israel’s version of events according to Sky news 
 

We are almost at the point where the point of taking about this will be lost as escalation is a near certainty now
Would Israel blow up a Gaza hospital and blame it on Hamas? Absolutely 
Would Hamas blow up a hospital to try an denigrate Israel? Very possibly 
would either of them own up to a botched operation? No f**kkin chance 
The fact that Israel has pointed the finger at third party is very suspicious 
Nobody in the Arab world is buying Israel’s version of events according to Sky news 
 

Not any longer

My own belief is that Netanyahu got his Hanecke present early and will use the situation to drive the Gazans into the med 
ooor people used as pawns between 2 bands of Zealots
it a horrible life for these guys and it is little wonder the youth are continually radicalised by the conflict, which suits Hamas and the Israelis just fine
 

Biden is actually quite a liberal Catholic as demonstrated by his stance on birth control and access to abortion
I'm afraid that for the U.K. and USA it’s only about the money that funds election campaigns 
did anyone se Cleverly (what a misnomer) in telly declaring that any Israeli response would be proportionate? Sickening bassa!